Featured on the Cemoh Podcast & YouTube

We're excited to share that our founder, Maddison Ryan, was recently featured on the Cemoh Podcast and Cemoh YouTube channel.

In this episode, Maddison dives into all things SEO – from fixing common website mistakes, to helping businesses get found online the right way. Whether you're new to SEO or looking to sharpen your strategy, it's a must-listen for anyone serious about growing their digital presence.

🔗 Listen on Apple Podcasts:
Episode #139: SEO Expert Maddison Ryan from The Digital Hub

🎥 Watch on YouTube:
Watch the full interview on YouTube

Stay tuned for more insights from The Digital Hub – where we keep SEO simple, strategic, and results-driven.

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Podcast Transcript

Summary

In the latest episode of the CMOH Marketing Podcast, host Simon Dell discusses SEO with Madison Ryan from Your Digital Hub, who has a decade of experience in the field. They explore the evolution of SEO, its importance in marketing, and the challenges faced by businesses, particularly large corporations like American Express. Madison highlights the need for a strategic approach to SEO, focusing on audience understanding, user experience, and conversion rates. They also touch on the impact of AI on SEO, the necessity of high-quality content, and the significance of maintaining an up-to-date Google Business profile for local businesses. The conversation emphasises the ongoing relevance of SEO in digital marketing and the importance of adapting to changes in the landscape.

Transcript

Welcome to the CMOH Marketing Podcast. I’m your host, Simon Dell. I’ve been battling influenza A for the past week, so if I cough, I apologize—it’s a terrible thing to do on a podcast. Let’s get introductions out of the way. I’m Simon Dell, CEO of CEMOH.com, Australia’s largest fractional marketing business. To learn more, visit SEOc.com. You can find me on LinkedIn. If you enjoy this podcast, please leave a review on Spotify or iTunes. If you’re interested in being a guest, reach out to me.

Today, I’m talking to Madison Ryan from Your Digital Hub. We’ll do a quick introduction soon, but first, Madison, welcome to the show.

Madison: Thanks for having me. Good to be here.

Simon: You’re an expert in search engine optimization. Would that be a fair assessment of your skill set?

Madison: Yes, I have about 10 years of experience.

Simon: We’ve known each other for about six months to a year. One reason I invited you on is to discuss SEO and the snake oil salesmen in the industry. Your background includes five years at American Express, correct?

Madison: Yes, exactly. I started with a lot of test-and-learn. My dad had a small plumbing business. Back then, he experimented with the site. Advertising shifted from newspapers to digital, which is how I learned SEO and developed my love for it.

Simon: We’ll talk about your American Express experience soon, but SEO has underpinned marketing growth for the last 20 years. It’s probably the least understood tactic by the average marketer. Fair to say?

Madison: Yes, there are so many facets of SEO. New updates come out weekly or daily, so it’s hard to keep up. Someone tells you one thing, then you’re optimizing for another. There’s a lot of noise. Focus on what drives the right traffic and conversions.

Simon: Early on, it was easy to game Google, creating the idea that SEO was a dark art. People manipulated websites in ways Google didn’t like. It was the Wild West, wasn’t it?

Madison: Exactly. Back then, it was keyword stuffing—put the keyword in the heading, title, sprinkle it throughout, and hope for the best. Or copy-paste location pages and pray they’d rank. It’s changed a lot. Now, you work harder across different channels.

Simon: I remember doing SEO copywriting years ago. The keyword had to be in the first and last sentence, making up 4% of the copy. It was strange. Let’s step back. At a company like American Express—a multinational, global finance business—how do you approach SEO? It must feel like staring at a giant, wondering where to start.

Madison: It was a bigger strategy. It comes down to the audience and fundamentals. It’s a large company with different products and services, so we looked at them separately. Different strategies applied within SEO. I focused on quick wins first. With so much to do and a small team, you prioritize what delivers results fast. You start where you can gain traction, not trying to do everything. It’s a massive, global website. You align with what the global team is doing, matching it to Australia. Everyone—developers, SEO team, brand—works together. Brand plays a bigger role in SEO now, a key part of the strategy.

Simon: With a company like that, you can’t make a wholesale change on a whim. You need approvals, right?

Madison: Huge compliance. I’d have loved to edit descriptions freely, but yes, it required approval.

Simon: How do you judge success in an organization like that? Is it organic traffic to the website? What’s a win for you?

Madison: Organic traffic is the first metric. Then, drill down to conversions—credit card sales, other services, and products. Traffic matters, but if the user experience isn’t right and people aren’t converting, you adjust. We used holistic reporting with various tools.

Simon: What improves conversions? Getting people to the site is half the battle. What drives them to buy a credit card, fill out a form, or call?

Madison: It’s test-and-learn. Check the site’s user experience—are buttons in the right places? Are calls-to-action set up? Is it mobile-friendly with desktop responsiveness? Understand what your audience wants. Search experience optimization (SXO) combines SEO, on-page experience, and conversions. Use recording software to see how users interact. A popup might block what customers need. Test what works.

Simon: In finance and credit cards, content is functional, not engaging. That must make it hard to gauge engagement.

Madison: Yes, it’s not a sexy product. Testing helps—different button colors, carousels, pictures—to see what people react to. A lot of A/B testing focuses on user experience.

Simon: With a brand like that, you have enough traffic for A/B testing. How do you test with smaller clients without thousands of daily visits?

Madison: Ask a colleague or external person to use the website. Watch how they navigate without commenting. Test the journey—ask them to buy a product and observe. If there’s no traffic, send some via a social test to gather data and insights.

Simon: Over the last 15-20 years, Google reportedly measured 200 factors for ranking. Is that still true, or are some factors more important now?

Madison: It’s more about diversifying channels beyond the website to dominate search results. Use Reddit, Pinterest, LinkedIn—build a total strategy. Recently, Reddit traffic on Google declined since January. Does that mean stop using it? Not necessarily. Assess if a channel works for your business. Don’t do it just to rank. Vanity ranking without conversions or authority isn’t relevant.

Simon: Every few months, Google adjusts something—promoting a new area or tweaking rankings. How do you keep up?

Madison: Focus on your audience—who they are, the conversations you want. Build branding so people search “Nike best running shoes,” not just “best running shoes.” Don’t get bogged down by trends. Write relevant, authentic content with personal stories AI can’t replicate. Stay true to your brand and audience.

Simon: Is the challenge producing lots of content, or less but more authentic? Is there a sweet spot?

Madison: It’s not quantity—it’s the right content people want. Don’t generate random AI articles. With so much content fed to Google, relevance matters. Diversify channels—LinkedIn, Pinterest, Reddit, industry blogs. Work with PR. Quality content earns organic links naturally.

Simon: We’ve written blogs or how-to articles that unexpectedly ranked number one. Three months ago, we posted about TikTok Shops arriving in Australia. It ranks top for every related query, driving traffic. But it’s not our core business—just an educational piece for marketing managers, our target market. Is that helping, or have we created a high-ranking article for no reason?

Madison: If it’s not bringing ideal customers or clients, focus on articles better suited to your audience. Ranking and traffic are great, but if there’s no conversion, it’s not relevant for your business.

Simon: I haven’t seen conversions from it, or at least can’t link them directly. It feels like vanity—lots of clicks, but no favors.

Madison: Exactly. With zero-click rankings and AI overviews, people may not even click through. If it’s not driving conversions, it’s not the right direction.

Simon: How is AI impacting SEO? There’s a lot of AI-generated content. People ask how to get ChatGPT or other AI tools to recommend them. Is there an easy way?

Madison: For AI search engines, focus on content—semantic tags, relevant headings. Comment on forums or channels, as they’re interrelated. Ensure technical health—schema, mobile and desktop optimization, good user experience. Combine these with authority and quality backlinks. It’s about quality, not quantity. Fewer, meaningful backlinks increase chances of appearing in featured snippets or AI results.

Simon: SEO has been a backbone of marketing for years. I can’t see it going away, but with AI platforms, might Google lose dominance, or is it strong enough to hold on?

Madison: Google and Bing are losing traffic to ChatGPT and other AI sources. Friends say they only use ChatGPT for search now—the mentality is shifting. I don’t think Google will lose out. They’re adapting. Yesterday, they announced the March update, focusing on relevant content. I suspect they’ll add more AI search features, evolving into a ChatGPT-like experience. They’re not giving up yet.

Simon: Sometimes, Google seems confused, finding their way. Earlier this year, search ranking issues hurt their reputation. Have they misstepped and are still figuring it out?

Madison: They had a monopoly, and people didn’t like that. Alternatives like Bing are gaining traction. I see more traffic on those for clients. People are diversifying—using social or advertising instead. Google lost some trust, but it’s still heavily used. I see loads of impressions and traffic in Search Console. It’s not going away as a top search engine.

Simon: Last question. Small businesses, like your dad’s plumbing company, rely on localized traffic. What can trades or small retailers do to appear in relevant search results?

Madison: Focus on evergreen content that stays relevant, adding your fresh perspective. Try new channels—socials, forums, PR. It’s test-and-learn. If organic social isn’t working, try a paid strategy. Optimize your Google Business Profile—keep it updated with posts, photos, fresh images. Check in regularly, especially for physical stores.

Simon: Are Google reviews still key for local businesses?

Madison: Yes, Google reviews matter. It’s harder to stand out, but an up-to-date Google Business Profile helps.

Simon: If anyone wants to reach out, ask questions, or engage your services, how can they find you?

Madison: Find me on LinkedIn under Madison Ryan or at thedigitalhub.com.

Simon: Madison, thank you for your suggestions and ideas today. Much appreciated.

Madison: Thanks so much. Good to chat.

[Music]